Posts by Frazzled UBM

53

questions

by DanielC in

i've been dating a jw girl for about 4 years and we've recently had a lot of issues with the fact that her family doesn't like that i'm not a jw.

i've been looking into the religion and am interested in it.

but is it wrong to join just so i don't lose her?

Frazzled UBM

Stop thinking with the little head. Let me do some crystal ball gazing for you an dlook into yoru future:

You get baptized to improve your relationshiop with your gf's family. Then you marry her and have kids and your kids are brought up as Witnesses and subjected to the indoctrination they use to induce sub-conscious phobias that they can manipulate as your child grows older to keep them in and stop them developing critical thinking skills. Years later you wake up to the full horror and see this manipulative cult for what it is and want out. You get disfellowshipped and your wife shuns you and encourages yoru kids to do the same - she gets help from the organisation to win custody of your kids on the basis you are spiritaully weak and a bad influence. Later your kids also wake up and realise the psychological damage this cult has done to them and resent you for not doing more to get them out.

This scenario is by no means fanciful. I am not suggesting you need to break up with your gf but if you are going to stay with her do it on your own terms and be clear you will not be converting and you will actively oppose your kids being brought up as Witnesses. This will test how liberal a Witness she really is. If she walks away you know you have dodged a bullet because she is telling you the organsiation is more important to her than you. If she stays then you have good prospects of getting her out (though recognise that it wil be a long hard bitter struggle to break the spell of indoctrination but it will be her seeing your genuine love for her that will win out in the end).

I think it is ironic that so many people on this site will tell you to end the relatinship point blank because they don't give Witnesses any credit for being able to get out when they themselves have done so. My wife was brought up in the cult and baptized and very much under the yolk but over time I have gotten her to the point where she has not gone to a meeting for 18 months and didn't even go tot the memorial this year. .

118

"In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth . ."

by nicolaou in

so where did god exist before he created the heavens?

Frazzled UBM

When my wife was in full indoctrination mode I asked her the following:

"Jehovah created man correct? Then who created Jehovah?"

She was flumoxed by this question as it had clearly never occurred to her. So I said: "I will give you a clue, they also created Allah, the Hindu Gods, the Ancient Egyptian Gods etc." She continued to look perplexed but also now a bit suspicious. "Do you give up?" I asked. "Mankind!" I answered at which point she looked at me darkly and walked off.

6

Anyone picked up that muslim fanatic convicted in UK for planning another attack on a soldier was brought up JW?

by Frazzled UBM in

i didn't find this particularly surprising given jw indoctrination is all about how evil the non-believers are (and how deserving they are to be destroyed during the big a) and how the wbts is absolutely right and everyone else is absolutely wrong - so it is not a big jump to islamic fanaticism.

Frazzled UBM

I didn't find this particularly surprising given JW indoctrination is all about how evil the non-believers are (and how deserving they are to be destroyed during the big A) and how the WBTS is absolutely right and everyone else is absolutely wrong - so it is not a big jump to Islamic fanaticism.

4

South American "Mayan" mob justice. Have you heard of it??

by DATA-DOG in

i have a close friend who has jw family in south america.

recently some criminals ran through their town.

the locals routinely practice "mayan justice" where the criminals are beaten or burned to death, depending on the crime.. the authorities try to stop it, but they are not always successful.

Frazzled UBM

I thought the mayans were from Central not South America (Mexico, Guatelmala, Honduras etc.)

42

Ongoing frustration with wife

by Flipping El in

i've tried taking the slow, patient approach with my wife.

i believe i first posted here about 13 months ago about my wife.. we've always had good communication and could talk endlessly about philosophy, neuroscience, sociology and then when i learned the ttatt, i clammed up a bit about spiritual things.

i'd always been fairly liberal, suggesting other alternative ideas, but then i told my wife about the un/ngo scandal (i ran across the guardian story doing a talk as an ms, lol!

Frazzled UBM

Hi Erbie - please start a thread to tell us your story. It sounds like you have been through a tough time.

42

Ongoing frustration with wife

by Flipping El in

i've tried taking the slow, patient approach with my wife.

i believe i first posted here about 13 months ago about my wife.. we've always had good communication and could talk endlessly about philosophy, neuroscience, sociology and then when i learned the ttatt, i clammed up a bit about spiritual things.

i'd always been fairly liberal, suggesting other alternative ideas, but then i told my wife about the un/ngo scandal (i ran across the guardian story doing a talk as an ms, lol!

Frazzled UBM

This sounds pretty tough Fliping El. Have you read Captives of a Concept? That explains the layers of defence against reality Witnesses build up - essentially there are two: the self-imposed; and the WBTS-imposed; and both are very hard to break through. I think finding a way to address the 'where can we go?' question may be a good start. Get her to understand that there are options and life beyond the organisation. The other thing to do is concentrate on the constant feelings of inadequacy that Witnesses have. She probably feels you are the cause of those feelings for her - your lack of 'spirituality' according to her definition is making her feel bad about herself. The trick is to get her to understand that it is the organisation that is making her feel inadequate because nothing she does will ever be enough. Get her to understand that that is the way they want her to feel because that is the way they motivate Witnesses to work harder in the Minsitry. Also when you observe bad behaviour at the KH - particularly directed at her and you, talk to her about it so she can start to see that the community is not the paradise of 'Christian Love' they make themselves out to be - that they are in fact a bunch of petty-minded judgemental hypocrites. If you have any worldly acquaintances - expose her to them so she can see they are not the corrupt evil greedy people that the organisation portrays them as. It is through her experiences you can best trigger thought-changing cognitive dissonance. Abstract debates about doctrine are less effective. Good luck, Fraz

11

Interview with an "Unbelieving Mate" (UBM): Gary Neal

by garyneal in

.

Frazzled UBM

Gary - yes we are the only ones to do this so far but there are more UBMs here - nonjwspouse and neverajw for two. We UBMs are indeed a small minotiry on JWN. So please other UBMs complete the template.

It is interesting that while there are some parallels in our experiences, there are also significant differences. This probably reflects our different upbringings and attitudes to religion and perhaps also the dynamic in the relationship.

I hope your approach in relation to your kids works - I was not prepared to take the risk of a compromise approach.

Cheers Fraz

42

I Waited Until My Wedding Night To Lose My Virginity And I Wish I Hadn't...

by Divergent in

i found this article interesting & just wanted to share.

after going through my teenage years trying to be the perfect jw, i realized that trying to live up to the standards imposed on me have been for worse & not for better.

i was feeling miserable, repressed, unfulfilled, with a great lack of self confidence & self esteem.

Frazzled UBM

The patriatchy that runs the organisation absolutely wants to control female sexuality. Not only the preoccupation with virginity but also the prohibition on masturbation (that does much more harm long term to the sisters than the brothers). My sister-in-law committed suicide rather than return to her newly married husband because I think - reading between the lines - she had an experience similar to that described in the OP on her wedding night and then ran away and then the elders, bless them, told her if she did not return to her husband she would be disfellowshipped. And I fear my wife will never experience the big O because she refuses to contemplate masturbation and during love making (including oral) when she seems to be getting close you can almost feel her stop herself. Oh the damage this cult has wrought!

26

Suggestion: Don't Accept Everyone's Opinion Here

by minimus in

jw
friends

everyone has an opinion on things.

oftentimes, we ask for help or want the view of the board in a matter.

but just remember, the comments are simply personal views.

Frazzled UBM

It is that old saying: "Opinions are like @ssholes - everyone has one."

37

"It's the intent that counts and not the result."

by donny in

"it's the intent that counts not the result.".

i have been out of the jw organization for some 22 years now and i sometimes get a reminding jolt out the hoops that some will jump through to make their religion make sense to them.

the first line in this post is what a jw on the street here in salinas told me on saturday when trying to justify the society's history of false prophecies.

Frazzled UBM

This would make a good description of US Foreign Policy